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Re: Anubis' Log

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:16 am
by zorg
anubis wrote:Also I assume that a Kip counts as a sub anyway (?) so I'd still have to be able to do three.


Unless I'm very much mistaken, a kip isn't a sub but the real thing. A kip just works other/more muscles than a deadhang. Personally, I find kipping more fatiguing (sp?), and I can do deadhangs longer than I can do kips.

Kips are much faster, and more efficient, though. With higher pullup numbers, you can hardly *not* kip, if you're working out for time.

There's plenty of good info on kipping on crossfit.com.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:37 am
by volleyball_man
I kip.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:31 am
by anubis
On the Kipping, I knew that I had read somewhere on here that the Kip was a sub so I checked through some posts. In "Fitness training" under the topic "Pullup Technique" this post came up:
ucffool wrote:You can kip, though consider it a 2:1 kipping:not.
Also, I burned out my nervous system doing negatives, so mix it up. I don't see an issue with using a pull-up machine, but you don't get as good a workout as when you are free-floating from the bar.
As suggested on simplefit, you should consider doing body rows , possibly with rings as you build it... mix it up.

This is where I got the idea that it's a sub. I got the ratio wrong though (2:1vs3:1). It seems to me from the vids I've seen on crossfit it would be equally hard as Zorg mentioned as it uses more overall body work and seems to be more cardio. Anyway thought I'd throw that in there but I'm all for counting 1:1 whenever I can even do a Kipping Pullup if that is the common thought.

As for the Straight vs. Bent arm start that ianjb posted I tried that last night (although it was after a LOT of shovelling) and found this: I was able to get the 2/3 way up on the first time with my arms straight. Then my wife, God love her, pointed out that I had not fully extended my shoulders :( despite my arms being straight. When I tried it with arms straight AND shoulders fully extended I could barely get started too. Looks like I have more work than I thought ahead of me :cry: Back to the drawing board I guess.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:41 am
by volleyball_man
I kip as a 1:1 sub. I disagree with the 2:1. Just my interpretation of the movement.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:01 pm
by anubis
I'd agree to the 1:1 from what I've seen on the Crossfit site. I'll work with that. Hopefully I can try some of the techniques they have on that site to assist my progress. My long term goal is to be able to do the Crossfit workouts but until I'm able I'll keep going with this as it seems to be working and I'm not Crossfit material yet.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:58 am
by volleyball_man
Have you been to the BrandX scaled workouts?

Some of them are doable. Not all CF wods require pullups...

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:19 pm
by anubis
I just had a look at the Brand X on the Crossfit site. It seems like a large forum. From what I gather you just look at the days post that should include a scaled workout and go based on your level? It's not laid out with instructions for a beginner but I figure my assumption is right. Will have to look at it closer.

Right now I am also lacking some of the gear I might need to do the workouts. I only have a Nautilus home gym. The weights are free weights but the bar is attached to a smith machine. I'll have to look into buying a Olympic bar and perhaps some kettle bells. Perhaps as the weather gets better and hopefully my fitness I can try to transition in a few crossfit WOD's into my routine?

Week 10

L1D1
44 sets (continuing with the 3 body rows per 1 chin-up subs)

L1D2
6:12 (Alternated between slow-negs, assisted-pullups as well as alternating grips) I' thinking of not timing D2 as even though I aim to not focus on time I still find that I am trying to keep a respectable time. Wonder if only timing the rest would yield better results toward pullups?

L1D3
5:05 (did 24 body rows and the last 6 were slow negs for the pull up subs)

Week 11

L1D1
35 sets (continuing with the 3 body rows per 1 chin-up subs)
did this after an hour workout so my reps suffered a bit.

L1D2
5:42(Alternated between slow-negs, assisted-pullups)

L1D3
4:53 (just did body rows)

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:32 am
by anubis
Week 12: Active Rest

I again just cut everything in half. So D1 = 10min, D2 = 5 rounds (3 Body row, 3 push ups 5 squats) D3 = 5 pull-up (15 bodyrows for me) 12 push-ups 12 squats.

L1D1
25 sets (continuing with the 3 body rows per 1 chin-up subs)

L1D2
2:12 (Alternated between slow-negs, assisted-pullups as well as alternating grips)

L1D3
2:16 (3 body rows per 1 chin-up subs)

Week 13

L1D1
35 sets (continuing with the 3 body rows per 1 chin-up subs)

L1D2
4:40 (assisted pullup with slow neg on the way down)

L1D3
5:05 (got 2 [1,1] real chin-ups!!!!!!!!! The first was a dead hang and the second I needed a little hip movement at the end to lift my chin above the bar. The rest 3 body rows per 1 chin-up subs)

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:16 am
by anubis
OOOOHHHH Yeah baby!! It finally happened. I successfully got a chin up last night!! :shock: :D

I came home after a workout and figured I'd try one and got it! Then I got a friend of mine to "witness" that I was in fact doing it properly and not cheating (as I almost didn't believe it happened) and I got a second a few minutes later. About a half hour later I hit up D3 of week 13 and was able to do two more broken (1,1) the second requiring a slight bit of hip movement to get my chin over the bar.

So, I'd like to thank the folks who developed the Simplefit workout plan (Kevin I believe), the folks who's logs I read for more info and those that posted on my log to give me advice (ianjb, zorg, Bill& vbm)! And a second thanks to VBM who posted regularly with advice and encouragement and kept me motivated......and the Academy for......

Seriously though guys THANKS! Haven't been able to do a chin-up since high school!

I'll keep working at it and hopefully soon I'll get a real pull-up and increase my numbers. I couldn't try for one as my pull-up bar is one of those perfect pull-ups and the doorway is a bit too narrow to do a traditional pull-up but will try when I get my home gym back(garage flooded a while back and it's in storage until I can put it back together) or I stop by a place with a pull-up bar that allows for real pull-ups.

Week 14

L1D1

36 sets (2 sets with a reg chin-up [failed on the third], the rest 3 bodyrows per 1 chin-up sub)

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:02 pm
by ianjb
Congratulations and thanks for posting. It's so good to see people enthusiastic about their progress.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:46 am
by volleyball_man
Awesome feeling - huh?!?!

Now - they'll start increasing in number quickly! Be careful not to overdo it and get messed up elbows.

Great work!

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:54 am
by anubis
Thanks guys. And yup it felt awesome! I will watch myself on the elbow issue. I did d1 yesterday in the morning and then after work I did a couple chin-ups just because it still feels like I'm a kid with a new toy and the elbows didn't feel too good when I went to bed so I'll try to not be overzealous and keep working at it slowly as suggested.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:10 am
by zorg
Very cool! Congratz!

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:22 am
by ianjb
When I started I couldn't do pull ups but I could sort of do chin ups. I went too quickly and got golfers elbow (pain on the inside of the elbow). I had to take several weeks off from chin ups but I could still do push ups and body rows. I did the body rows (overhand like pull ups not underhand like chin ups) from a bar about 3 feet from the floor. When my elbow was better I found I was able to do pull ups with minimal assistance. I have not had any more elbow problems using the overhand grip.

Just my experience, YMMV.

Here is a quote on the SF forum from "Captain" that I found very helpful:

SF is a fitness routine. It will give you more strength, flexibility and endurance. Patience is key. Nearly everyone I have introduced to the program worried about how fast they were moving up, ignored elbow and shoulder pain and eventually had to sit out for a spell. If your goal is fitness you know the answer without asking, it simply doesn't make a difference how fast you move up if you are performing the exercises with correct form and doing as much work as you can in the allotted time for day one and striving for the best time on day three. You will discover if you move up too quickly that you did not lay a sufficient foundation of strength to enable endurance. If you stay too long at too low a level you will harvest more endurance but strength gains will slow down. While these sound contradictory you will find that day three demands more and more strength as you move up to perform the movements in the allottted time with correct form-cheating on form is silly and not productive. If you are cheating you lack the strength to do them properly so you are only working on endurance but compromising strength- move down. The goal is fitness.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:14 am
by anubis
Thanks a lot zorg, and ianjb for the added advice. I'll keep that in mind. Certainly I think I'm trying to be patient. After all it's been three months going on four at L1 and I know I probably have another 3 to go before I can level up. I will aim to try and do my chin-ups so as to not cause injury and be able to remain consistent with the workouts. Some days are daunting when you consider how long it is taking to go from one level to another but as you, captain, vbm and many others have pointed out, if you spend the time doing it right the progress will come, and the end result will be more beneficial. I approached the idea of working to a chin-up that way and despite a long time it eventually happened so I'll keep that sort of attitude and keep working. Again thanks.