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Wanted: Ideas for a reluctant vegified family

Natural Nutrition

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Wanted: Ideas for a reluctant vegified family

Postby kdo463 » Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:34 am

My wife's pregnancy 7 years ago messed her up. (Your opinion may differ.) Until she was pregnant with our son she was a meat-and-potatoes girl and ate maybe peas and corn for vegetables. Since then meat of any kind makes her nauseas, even eggs. She can handle dairy though.
So, our family diet has adjusted considerably since then. We eat lots of beans and dairy and have expanded our vegetable list into the broccoli category. Not quite into squash or asparagus quite yet. And we still refuse to try tofu. Since neither of us ever really learned to cook, and with our tight schedule and relatively low income, we always struggle to find things to eat. My son and I will eat meat and eggs from time to time, but mom has to find other things for those meals.

So, I'm wondering if anyone has an ideas for us or a website or book to recommend for quick and easy vegetarian meals that are inexpensive and don't involve exotic vegan ingredients.

Let me guess, "1001 Ways to Prepare Beans and Broccoli." :)
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Postby ucffool » Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:25 pm

http://www.publix.com/aprons/meals/Cook ... Vegetarian
http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/et_sl_v ... 61,00.html
That could get you started. I may think of more later, but I'm a meat eater myself :)
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Postby kdo463 » Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:20 am

Thanks, Andy. We'll have to check those out.

We tried some grilled veggies with an Italian olive oil marinade last night. Very good! Added some parmesan cheese for extra flavor and substance. The only problem was that a couple hours later I was hungry again. Maybe next time we should have pasta with it or something. Its hard to do this and not load up on carbs at the same time.
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Postby Admin » Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:56 am

I respect what you are trying to do but it might be hard to pull off your body needs protein, maybe whey eggs fish? Here is a good resources.

http://www.thepaleodiet.com/

Best of luck
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Postby kdo463 » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:03 am

Can you do paleo style meals without the fasting? IF won't work for us logistically, especially with a child. That's why I ask.
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Postby kdo463 » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:11 am

Yeah, protein has been quite the issue at our house. We typically just have lots of cheese, skim milk, nuts, and beans. I'm trying to convice my wife to try soy and whey products. But, I do have to agree they don't look too appetizing. And it would increase our food budget considerably. I should do some more googling on the vegetarian websites to figure out how to make this work.
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Postby Admin » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:17 am

nuts = fat not protein, good fat but high in omega 6 fa's
beans = carb, protein locked away inside indigestible cell wall
cheese is ok but dairy can cause inflammation.
Stay away from soy = estrogen and lectins (keep away from kids)
Whey protein isolate is very good and contains non of the inflammatory properties
Egg whites are almost perfect.

it will be really though to lose fat and gain muscle without the protein intake.

This is a good resource for semi veg protein options
Protein Power lifespan: Michael and Marie Eaded M.D.

Best of luck
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Postby kdo463 » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:31 am

OH my. We have things completely backwards, I guess. I've never heard about avoiding soy. I thought that was one of the best vegan protein sources there was. What about texturized veg protien?
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Postby Admin » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:54 pm

I do not know about that, the method to my madness is to stay a close to natural as possible (avoid stuff that comes out of a box, jar, tube, bag, can) as much as possible, this will ensure you will be avoiding nitrates, trans fats, processed refined carbohydrates, preservatives, chemicals, and all the bad stuff we have introduced to increase shelf life, and enhance flavor we do not even know is bad yet. Low protein is tough since that should be a large portion of your macro nutrient intake and it is hormonally neutral like fat so it will not effect your insulin level.

What are your dietary goals?
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Postby kdo463 » Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:36 am

Low protein is definitely not the goal, don't get me wrong. We are simply trying to have a good balanced meal to keep us healthly, and secondly to help us with our workout recoveries. Not for weight loss, or bulking up or anything drastic. The problem we have is that we are stuggling to find meatless protein that does not come in a box or jar. Hense the beans, nuts, dairy, etc.
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Postby Admin » Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:46 am

Well may need to make an exception if you don't want to eat meat I think whey and egg whites may be your best options.

If you look at the macro nutrient composition of beans and nuts you may find that they will not be a practical source of protein.

Protein requirements should be based on lean body mass and activity level the zone charts you can find online for free are a good starting point.

http://www.zonebasics.com/BFCalculator.htm

Let me know if you have any questions.

Also I should add I am speaking from personal experience, this is what worked for me you body is different and something else may work for you best thing imho is to take careful notes and try different things.

I would say if you are really concerned about health which it sounds like you are go to your doc and get some labs done hdl, ldl, triglycerides and see what happens to those numbers when you do different things your doc can help your interpret the results.
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Postby gwmccull » Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:58 pm

The plant-based diet includes a wide variety of whole foods consisting of beans, whole-grains, fruits, vegetables, nuts, and seeds, along with products made from these natural foods, such as tofu, tempeh, and meat analogs. Those who believe plant protein is inferior to animal protein may be surprised to learn that plant proteins contain the same 23 amino acids as animal proteins.

If a person is eating a broad selection of plant-based foods and consuming adequate calories, it is unlikely he or she will be protein deficient. Physicians in the United States rarely encounter patients who are deficient in protein. Deficiency is uncommon and is seen mostly in countries where serious shortages of food exist, and malnutrition is prevalent.


I've been mostly vegetarian for several years now and I've never had problems maintaining muscle. For more information, checkout:
http://www.vegparadise.com/protein.html
http://www.vegparadise.com/

For recipes try:
http://vegweb.com/
http://www.all-creatures.org/recipes.html

Note, these sites are primarily vegan websites and the people on there tend towards the extreme. Simply take the information and ignore the crap.

Also, I find that when trying new fake meat products, don't pretend like it's going to taste like meat. IT WON'T! Just accept that it's a new veggie product and enjoy it. Many of the veggie recipes are pretty simple and cheap. The basis is often bulk grains and vegetables. In every other country in the world, it's cheaper to eat vegetarian and it's often stigmatized as the diet of the poor.

Your biggest challenge in eating a vegetarian diet is that it is imperative to broaden the list of foods you'll eat. Mac n' Cheese is vegetarian but it won't sustain you!

good luck
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Postby taifun » Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:17 pm

gwmccull wrote: In every other country in the world, it's cheaper to eat vegetarian


Umm, no. Sorry, but it's the same all over the western world, and even some developing countries as well. Green and fresh is costly, processed food is cheap.
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Postby Admin » Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:56 am

"it is unlikely he or she will be protein deficient. Physicians in the United States rarely encounter patients who are deficient in protein"

By the same token Dr's in the US constantly encounter patients who are grossly obese so their perceptions of normal may be skewed.

That said I think the main issue is the constant, intake of refined high gl/gi carbohydrates (sugar) breads pasta chips potatoes... without any nutrients or fiber. I think if somebody was to eat a low protein diet with the vast majority of their calories coming from non refined whole foods without needing to rely on post paleo grains and legumes they would do pretty well but that would be allot of eating.

Here are some grains that are not really grains and do not contain gluten or lectins to my knowledge but still this is high caloric density and relatively low nutrient density
buckwheat
quinoa
Amaranth

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/79/5/774
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... s=12081852

Again I take this stance because I am extremely sensitive to refined carbs and gain fat /lose muscle when I eat low protein high carb for any period of time. Some people respond well to sugar, but most don't and you can see them all around you struggling to get in and out of their cars. If the low protein diet works for you that is great and you are lucky but if you have been trying to get in shape forever I encourage you to try something like I outlined here http://www.simplefit.org/nutrition.html I should note that using this program not only did I lose fat and gain muscle but saw drastic improvements in HDL LDL and Triglycerides AKA predictors of syndrome X.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolic_syndrome

If you do decide to change your diet in any way go to your dr and get those baseline tests: HDL LDL and Triglycerides to recheck.

I know that what I am saying that what I am saying in contrary to conventional wisdom but here is a stack of books by PHD's that helped shape my opinion and reinforced my direct personal experiance

Protein Power lifespan: Michael and Marie Eaded M.D.
Paleo Diet: Loren Cordain, Ph.D.
Lights out: T.S. Whiley Bent Formby PH.D.
Mastering The Zone: DR Sears Barry PH.D.

The base of all those books is evolutionary science not theory that brought us thing like nitrates, olestra, and nitrates. Hard scientific evidence like the fact that fossilized paleo human remains in western Europe indicate that their diet was similar to that of a top level predators like wolves.


Here is tons of free research by Loren Cordain, Ph.D.
http://www.thepaleodiet.com/published_research/
Loren Cordain, Ph.D., is widely acknowledged as a leading expert on the diet of our Paleolithic ancestors.
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Postby Dinna » Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:54 am

Hi :) I have to say I don't really understand people's concern about vegetarians not getting enough protein! It's a myth that they don't, only because they don't eat meat. I don't eat much meat myself because I don't like it, I guess I'm sort of a semi-vegetarian, and I've read a lot of literature about vegetarian food and what to eat in order to get enough protein, vitamins and so on. The fact is that there's protein in all kinds of food, even vegetables (although not a lot), but nuts and seeds, beans and lentils, quinoa, buckwheat, oatmeal etc are all great sources of protein. You just have to keep a varied diet with good protein sources in every meal (like those just mentioned) and then you shouldn't worry about not getting enough. I don't understand why meat would be better than beans protein wise? They contain just as much protein as meat, and the body needs carbs too, so what's the problem that they might contain some carbs as well? The carbs in beans are healthy and natural. Nuts are also a great source of protein, and that's a fact. You can drink protein shakes if you like but it really shouldn't be necessary! The only thing vegetarians don't always get is vitamin B-12, and also be sure to get enough calcium, zinc and iron. You can take vitamins to be sure you get enough but if you eat dairy and eggs, calcium, B-12 and iron shouldn't be a problem. If vegan eat lucerne sprouts (thats a word in english right? :)) and seaweed for B-12. Zinc is also in lots of foods like oatmeal, cheese, milk, nuts and seeds, peas and corn.
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't get why natural foods like the ones mentioned should be a bad thing and why they are not as good protein sources as meat? I know that meat don't also contain carbs, but the body needs carbs and why not get them from beans, lentils, nuts, different healthy grains as well as vegetables and fruit? All of them are natural foods so I guess I just don't understand the fuss..
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